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SEN. DRILON. Three hundred million?

MS. OCAMPO. -shares

SEN. DRILON. Shares. And to your knowledge, is this account fully paid or still outstanding?

MS. OCAMPO. It is still outstanding but the interest is updated.

SEN. DRILON. The interest is being updated. That is all for the witness.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you.

The Chair now recognizes the honorable Senator Aquino-Oreta.

SEN. ORETA. May I ask some clarificatory question to the witness, Mr. Chief Justice.

THE PRESIDING OFFICE. You may proceed, Your Honor.

SEN. ORETA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

Madam Witness, you came on your own volition and volunteered to testify in this case on certain accounts and documents without being required by the Court to do so, Is this correct?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes.

SEN. ORETA. So in respect to the documents which you brought to the Court and marked as Exhibit "UUU", with the submarkings, you did not receive a subpoena duces tecum, specifically directing you to present or submit documents you brought to these proceedings, is this correct?

MS. OCAMPO. I don't know the technical, as I mentioned, the technical side, so I volunteered. Management also knows that I am coming forward, the Board, so I am here presenting. I cannot answer that.

SEN. ORETA. Yes, you presented it without supoena?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes.

SEN. ORETA. So the documents you brought.....

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What was the answer? It is not very clear in the record. It is "yes" or "no"?

SEN. ORETA. Yes, she came voluntarily, Mr. Chief Justice..

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So do not just simply nod or whatever. State, for the record the answer.

SEN. ORETA. So the documents you brought with you at the hearing on December 22, 2000 are confidential, as is evident from the fact that it is a trust account and it is referred to a Number Account C-163, is it not?

MR. POBLADOR. We object, Your Honor. That calls for a legal conclusion.

THE PRISIDING OFFICER. The witness is very competent to answer the question, being the Vice President for Trust. So the objection is overruled. The witness may answer.

MS. OCAMPO. The account is confidential but we have referred the matter to external counsel first before actually coming forward with the documents, and they cleared it. They approved our presentation.

SEN. ORETA. Yes, but you brought these documents here for the hearing on December 22, 2000.

MS. OCAMPO. With the lawyers, with my external counsel.

SEN. ORETA. Madam Witness, how long have you been a trust officer of the bank?

MS. OCAMPO. I have been with the Trust Department since 1989. So, 11 years now. But I handled the overall trust of Equitable PCI Bank and OIC only in August and then Trust Officer as of October 1999. But I have been handling trust for 11 years.

SEN. ORETA. For 11 years. And do you keep the accounts entrusted to you confidentially?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes.

SEN. ORETA. You do. And so... but for the Jose Velarde account you broke bank confidentiality.

MR. BAUTISTA. We object, Your Honor, argumentative and it has no basis. There is no law which makes this account confidential.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Well, you are answering for the witness. Overruled. The witness may answer. She should know the banking laws.

MS. OCAMPO. The account is confidential but, as I mentioned, that we cleared it with the external counsel if we can present. Since they cleared it, then we could bring the documents here.

SEN. ORETA. Yes, May we know who this external counsel is Madam Witness?

MS. OCAMPO. Atty. Mario Bautista; Atty. Poblador.

SEN. ORETA. Oh, the ones representing you now?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes.

SEN. ORETA. I see. That's it. Thank you, Madam Witness.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. The honorable Senator Coseting is now recognized for her questions; after that the honorable Senator-Judge Roco.

SEN. COSETENG. Mr. Chief Justice, with your permission just a few questions because most of the questions have already been asked.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. You may proceed, Your Honor.

SEN. COSETENG. C-163 is a confidential account as you mentioned, Mrs. Ocampo.

MS. OCAMPO. That's the name of the account.

SEN. COSETENG. You keep mentioning the fact that external counsel and the members of the Board have approved your divulging this information and bringing forth these documents before this Court. Is that correct?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes, Ma'am

SEN. COSETENG. Did the owner of the account give you the permission or as his or her permission sought?

MS. OCAMPO. It was discussed with the management. This was thoroughly discussed, so I don't know whether the chairman of our bank, Mr. Go, has discussed it with Jose Velar... the President.

SEN. COSETENG. But as far as other accounts are concerned, should the owner of the account not grant their permission for banks to divulge this information?

MR. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, this goes into an interpretation of Section 55 of the New General Banking Act.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair recognizes that it does not. The witness again is very competent because she in the banking business.

MS. OCAMPO. But the...

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Overruled. The witness may answer.

SEN. COSETENG. I just want to know, Madam Witness, if the owner of the account, his permission was sought before this was divulged.

MS. OCAMPO. As I understand it, as a layman, the case is an impeachment case against the President and the account is owned by the President, so this is exempt. But for the other accounts....

SEN. COSETENG. So, this is a conclusion that you had determined that this is owned by the President?

MS. OCAMPO. This is not a conclusion. I saw it. He actually signed the documents, and the debit-credit authority which says that "to debit my account" means that he owns the Jose Velarde account in the bank proper.

SEN. COSETENG. Before your visit to Malacanang, have you come across the name Jose Velarde?

MS. OCAMPO. No. No, Your Honor.

SEN. COSETENG. Not at all?

MS. OCAMPO. No.

SEN. COSETENG. You are a member of the Trust Committee of the bank?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. COSETENG. The Management Committee?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes

SEN. COSETENG. The Asset and Liability Committee of the bank?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes.

SEN. COSETENG. And the Retirement Committee?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes Ma'am.

SEN. COSETENG. Was this transaction ever discussed in any of these committee meetings?

MS. OCAMPO. It was actually taken up in the Trust Committee, not.... It was presented because it's required for us to present all of the transactions or accounts opened and closed. So, it was then presented in one of the meetings, subsequent meetings of the Trust Committee-The Trust Account Number and then the Confidential Account No. C-163, P500 million lending to Wellex. So that's minuted.

SEN. COSETENG. So, that came about before your visit or after?

MS. OCAMPO. After, after.

SEN. COSETENG. After the visit?

SEN. COSETENG. Did you raise any kind of objection or apprehension or discomfort about what you had seen in any of these meetings?

MS. OCAMPO. The Chairman of the Trust Committee then was Mr. George Go and he instructed me to actually handle this transaction. So it was presented. Then we just presented the facts, it was not discussed at length, it was just mentioned in the account's open and close document report.

SEN. COSETENG. So you didn't raise any objection or asked any other questions?

MS. OCAMPO. Ma'am, I was already instructed to handle it and the name is consistent with the account name in the bank proper.

SEN. COSETENG. Okay. Do you know who got this appointment to go to Malacaņang?

MS. OCAMPO: Atty. Fernando Chua.

SEN. COSETENG: So you didn't have to call anyone in Malacanang for this?

MS. OCAMPO: No, Ma'am.

SEN. COSETENG: When did you actually tell the Prosecutors that you were willing to testify?

MS. OCAMPO: There were discussions with management. That was December 21st.

SEN. COSETENG: So, on December 21st-that was a day before you came to the hearing-you told the Prosecutors that you wanted to testify?

MS. OCAMPO: Actually, I told management that I am willing to testify. I can wait for my turn but it's really up to them to want me to go ahead. So they had discussions with the Prosecution. I was just told that I was going to be presented the next day.

SEN. COSETENG: So, when did the first discussions come about between management and you?

MS. OCAMPO: That was the Friday before that, maybe December 8.

SEN. COSETENG: So more than a week before? Yes, two weeks before?

MS. OCAMPO: No, it was the week before.

SEN. COSETENG: The Friday before the day you came here? Was that...?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. COSETENG: Was the so-called external counsels that you were referring to, are they regular lawyers of the bank?

MS. OCAMPO: They are retained by the bank.

SEN. COSETENG: So, they were not consulted just for this particular case? The bank has been consulting them?

MS. OCAMPO: The bank retained them for this trust transaction.

SEN. COSETENG: For this particular case?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. COSETENG: Thank you, Madam Witness. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, too. Finally, the Chair recognizes the honorable Senator-Judge Rocco.

SEN. ROCO: Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice. I've been listening and my friends Senator-Judge Leviste and then Senator-Judge Drilon, and several others, I think Senator-Judge Flavier appear to have established, based on your narration, that there is a set of Dichaves documents. Is this correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. ROCO: This is the one signed on December 11?

MS. OCAMPO: Eleven and thirteen.

SEN. ROCO: Yes. So, before proceeding, Mr. Chief Justice, could I askt hat compulsory subpoena duces tecum be issued as regards this document that you refer to, and that in answer to Senator Drilon, you said that you can have access to in any event?

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