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THE PRESIDING OFFICER: "UUU-1."

SEN. FLAVIER: Yes, Mr. Chief Justice.

Were there also any occasion when the name "Jose Velarde" was ever affixed on a document not by President Joseph Estrada?

MS. OCAMPO: To my knowledge, there is none.

SEN. FLAVIER: Your personal knowledge--

MS. OCAMPO: There is none.

SEN. FLAVIER. --and you're witnessing yet?

MS. OCAMPO. None.

SEN. FLAVIER. No. You alluded to Fernando Chua telling you in some way to protect the President. Did I get you right?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER. In that second set of documents involving "Jaime Dichaves," was this part of that attempt to protect the President?

MS. OCAMPO. I really....well, that was an instruction of Mr. Go, because the principal had instructed the bank to actually assign his interest, so I wouldn?t know whether it's a scheme to protect the President. But this is an agency so the principal is Jose Velarde, the President, and he wants to assign his rights, then, as an agent then, we have to follow, but....

SEN. FLAVIER. So this was executed in the course of events without pre-knowledge on your part as to what it was for?

MS. OCAMPO. I was told that we were to prepare a new set of the investment management documents because the principal wants to assign his interests over the investment management account to another ? a third party, which I found out to be Jaime Dichaves later.

So, I prepared them without knowing actually who the person was, but the reason for it was described to me.

SEN. FLAVIER. I see. Now, have you read in the papers something that I have read in which Jaime Dichaves claims that the Jose Velarde account belongs to him?

MS. OCAMPO. I read that in the papers.

SEN. FLAVIER. Do you, of your own knowledge, know any connection between what inspired in your personal presence with the lawyers and that particular claim of Jaime Dichaves?

MS. OCAMPO. No, if we are going to follow ... for the trust, we were going to follow instructions of the principal. So if Jose Velarde to Jaime Dichaves.

SEN. FLAVIER. Yes.

MS. OCAMPO. So Jaime Dichaves will eventually be the assignee of the account.

SEN. FLAVIER. Yes, but earlier before the break, you mentioned that the transaction did not materialize--

MS. OCAMPO. Yes, Sir.

SEN. FLAVIER. --or was not completed.

MS. OCAMPO. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER. Because the signatory, Joseph Estrada, for the Jose Velarde account, did not sign that, in effect, did not assign it to Dichaves.

MS. OCAMPO. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER. Now, if the signature was obtained, would it be correct to say that, in effect, the account would then belong to Dichaves and his claim in the newspaper would be correct?

MS. OCAMPO. If the President or Jose Velarde, as he signed it, would instruct us, and we are just agents, then we will implement. But definitely, we will refer the matter to external cousel first.

SEN. FLAVIER. I see. But the signature in the signature card would be the name of Dichaves after it is assigned to him.

MS. OCAMPO. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER. Did you see him, meaning, Dichaves affix his signature on the signature card?

MS. OCAMPO. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER. What name did he use? His own name or another name?

MS. OCAMPO. Jaime Dichaves.

SEN. FLAVIER. So that was the name he used and signed it on the card.

MS. OCAMPO. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER. Finally, I am intrigued by the fact that part of the incident you recount happens in the law office of Atty. Estelito Mendoza, whom I am glad is coming, at the right cue. Could you tell this Court, Ms. Ocampo, what was the involvement of Atty. Mendoza in that particular incident in which you went to his office?

MS. OCAMPO. I don't know because I just went there to have Mr. Dichaves actually sign, and I was surprised that it was not the office of Mr. Dichaves. But I saw ... I didn't enter the conference room. I was being invited to go into the conference room and have Mr. Dichaves sign the Investment Management Agreement, but as they opened the door I saw Atty. Mendoza in the room. So I really don't know what his involvement was, but the documents then were brought out and signed by Mr. Dichaves.

SEN. FLAVIER. Were they just using his office or was he involved in the whole transaction?

MS. OCAMPO. I would not know.

SEN. FLAVIER. You wouldn't know. I see. But in that particular incident, it went far as the signing by Dichaves and no signature of the President ever occurred and, therefore, did not get consummated?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER: Is there any other incident that happened in that particular thing that you would like to share with us?

MS. OCAMPO: Nothing else.

SEN. FLAVIER: No more.

MS. OCAMPO: We did not implement the assignment.

SEN. FLAVIER: Can you repeat that?

MS. OCAMPO: We did not implement the assignment. So as far as the trust is concerned, it is a Jose Velarde account.

SEN. FLAVIER: And then after that, you all left and said your goodbyes and Atty. Estelito Mendoza did not have any hand, active or otherwise, in the transaction.

MS. OCAMPO: I actually met Atty. Mendoza only at the foyer, the foyer 'no, because his daughter is actually a friend of mine. We were best friends in grade school at St. Scholastica's College and she was in the office. So she introduced me and reminded Atty. Mendoza that I am Clarissa Grey. And we were just talking about the good old days because I used to visit their house and sleep there when I was a little girl. So that's what we talked about.

SEN. FLAVIER: I see.

MS. OCAMPO: We didn't talk about the Dichaves account.

SEN. FLAVIER: So, I assume that you know Atty. Estelito Mendoza.

MS. OCAMPO: I know him because when I was a little girl, you know, I was...You know, his daughter was my best friend --

SEN. FLAVIER: I see.

MS. OCAMPO: -- so I used to sleep in his house. But then, I don't know if he still remembers me.

SEN. FLAVIER: I see. Is he present in this room? And if so, can you point to him?

MS. OCAMPO: This one.

SEN. FLAVIER: Thank you very much.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: The Chair will now recognize the honorable Senator-Judge Drilon.

SEN. DRILON: Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

Mrs. Ocampo, in the second set of documents that you have already testified to, do you recall what the dates indicated were?

MS. OCAMPO: I was told that the principal wants the date to be February 4, 2000, the same date as the original.

SEN. DRILON: Who told you that the principal wanted that date?

MS. OCAMPO: Mr. Go.

SEN. DRILON: Mr. Go. And did the documents, in fact, indicate the date February 4 of the year 2000, the second set?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Sir.

SEN. DRILON: Now, where are the second set of documents now?

MS. OCAMPO: I submitted it to external counsel.

SEN. DRILON: You submitted it to the external counsel. Would you have a way of retrieving the second set of documents?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Sir.

SEN. DRILON: And would you be able to retrieve that and bring it before this Court at a subsequent date?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Sir.

SEN. DRILON: Did anyone ask you, or did anyone give you instructions on what to do on the first set of documents?

MS. OCAMPO: It was supposed to be just kept like a dormant file, if we were able to implement the assignment.

SEN. DRILON: All right. Now, let me go to some other matter. I would refer you to Exhibit "XXX". Can you look at Exhibit "XXX"?

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Microphone, please.

SEN. DRILON: Can I refer the witness to Exhibit "XXX"? If Exhibit "XXX" is in front of you-I refer to Exhibit "XXX-1"-did you see President Joseph Ejercito Estrada sign above the typewritten name "Jose Velarde"?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. DRILON: Now, this letter is an authorization, and let me read it. It says:

This is to authorize you to debit my SA/CA. 0160-62501-5, maintained with your branch in the amount of P500 million and credit my Trust Account No. 101-78056-1 representing my initial contribution.

Now, when the President said, "My SA/CA No. 016062501-5," this means that he owns this account?

MS. OCAMPO: That's right, Sir.

SEN. DRILON: All right. Can I refer you now to Exhibit "UUU-4"? This is the second page of the Exhibit "UUU". May I refer you to "UUU-4"? There is a signature above the typewritten name "Manuel Curato". Was this signed in your presence?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Sir.

SEN. DRILON: And you can attest that this is the signature of Manuel Curato?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. DRILON: Why do you say?

MS. OCAMPO: He is a bank officer and he handles trust as well. He is the head of our Legal Department and he signs a lot of the legal opinion rendered by the Internal Legal Department of the bank.

SEN. DRILON: May I refer you now to Exhibit "UUU"...I think if I'm not mistaken, yeah, "UUU". Would you consider this as a business ... "UUU", do you have it right now?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. DRILON: Would you consider this as a business transaction?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes. There are the instructions with regard to the P500 million. We are just an agent. So we have to follow the specific instructions.

SEN. DRILON: And this is a business transaction?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, it is a business transaction.

SEN. DRILON: Now, I recall you having mentioned that you made representations with Mr. Go that the security under Exhibit "UUU" is no longer sufficient. Did you require additional security for this?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Sir.

SEN. DRILON: And was additional security given?

MS. OCAMPO. Mr. Gatchalian gave additional when he gave us Wellex, Incorporated shares to supplement these Waterfront shares.

SEN. DRILON. How many Wellex shares to your collection?

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