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MS. OCAMPO: Well, he was asking about the transaction, I mean the documentation and--

SEN. CAYETANO: About the P500 million.

MS. OCAMPO: --P500 million on the trust side, and he was just asking me... Well, he asked me to protect the President.

SEN. CAYETANO: In what way?

MS. OCAMPO: I don't know.

SEN. CAYETANO: I mean, in what way did he say, "Protect the President?" Ano ang sabi niya? As far as you recall, ano ang pagkakasabi ni Mr. Fernando Chua?

MS. OCAMPO: Well, he asked me, "Where are the documents?" And then I said that I have already given them to Senior Management because, of course, the management was already reviewing all of the Velarde accounts. And so what are we going to do about it? Then I said that Senior Management will probably get in touch with you. And then... So, I cannot commit anything, you know, because I brought it up, they are reviewing, we were looking at how we are going to go about it. Well, if we were going to cooperate, actually. That was a commitment of the bank, and when I will appear, when will Betty Bagsit appear, et cetera. But he then reminded me, he reminded me that, "You should protect the President." That is what he said, and I just looked at him.

SEN. CAYETANO: Exactly that word.

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. CAYETANO: "Protect the President".

MS. OCAMPO: Uhumm.

SEN. CAYETANO: Okay. Do you know this Ms. Bagsit personally?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes. She is First Vice President of the bank proper, of Equitable PCI Bank.

SEN. CAYETANO: And is she the one in charge of Jose Velarde's account?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, she is the one in charge now. But there probably are certain people higher than her who are likewise in charge, but I don't know who.

SEN. CAYETANO: Okay, one final question. Do you still fear for your life?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, of course, I do.

SEN. CAYETANO: Why?

MS. OCAMPO: Because this is the government, this is Malacanang, especially after the bombings, I was really very concerned. I don't really know the source of the bombings, but it's a lot of concern, you know. It's very difficult to be hiding. It's very difficult to be in this situation. I am just telling the truth.

SEN. CAYETANO: Well, we are praying for you.

Thank you.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, too. The honorable Senator-Judge Biazon; then the Honorable Judge Flavier who earlier made a reservation.

Then Honorable Senator-Judge Biazon first.

SEN. BIAZON: Thank you, Chief Justice.

To the witness, Mrs. Ocampo. You have a mention of a second set of documents?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. BIAZON: Yes. Can you describe what these documents were?

MS. OCAMPO: These would be the same documents: the Investment Management Agreement, the directional letter of investment to Wellex, the investment guidelines, and the signature card.

SEN. BIAZON: Yes. And these were the second set of documents. Who were supposed to be the signatories?

MS. OCAMPO: Mr. Jaime Dichaves was going to be the assignee, so the principal, and myself as trust officer.

SEN. BIAZON: Was the name of Jaime Dichaves already typewritten or entered into the documents?

MS. OCAMPO: I understand that it was not typed. It was not typed because it was mentioned to me only like that day, the day that the signing was going to be done. That was...The first signing was December 11, to my recollection.

SEN. BIAZON: The signing of documents by Mr. Dichaves.

MS. OCAMPO: The documents by Mr. Dichaves. Because he went to the bank, he went to the bank initially. He went to the bank and some documents were already signed there in my presence. So, I am familiar with his signature.

SEN. BIAZON: Yes. And what would be the account number involved in the second set of documents?

MS. OCAMPO: So it was an assignment. So it was supposed to be an assignment. That was the instruction of the principal, so it would have the same Account Number 10178056-1.

SEN. BIAZON: This is in reference to the trust account?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. BIAZON: But in this letter of Jose Velarde to Ms. Bagsit, there is a reference to a debit to his savings account, last Current Account No. 0160-62501-5. Would this also be involved in the second set of documents?

MS. OCAMPO: This was not anymore prepared. This was not executed. It was only for the trust.

SEN. BIAZON: It was only for the Trust Account No. 101-78056-1 which was initially, as you know, an account belonging to one "Jose Velarde".

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. BIAZON: Yes.

MS. OCAMPO: But this was not...We did not prepare another one of this to be signed by Jaime Dichaves because it was just an assignment on the trust side, for the trust part of the transaction. So it was not required by our Legal Department because the funds were coming from Jose Velarde account. He is assigning his rights and interests to the trust transaction to Jaime Dichaves so the documents on the trust side were the ones that were actually replicated.

SEN. BIAZON: I am wondering why you would receive instructions from Mr. Fernando Chua. Do you know him personally?

MS. OCAMPO: He was actually introduced to me by Mr. George Go and on that basis, I dealt with him.

SEN. BIAZON: Yes. How was Atty. Fernando Chua introduced to you by Mr. Go?

MS. OCAMPO: It was in the party, his asalto. That was February 3. We had cocktails at The Anvil Restaurant. That was about 6:00 or 6:30 and Mr. Fernando Chua came in and talked to Mr. Go. I don't know how long. And then Mr. Go called me and introduced me to Mr. Chua.

SEN. BIAZON: And how was Mr. Chua introduced to you? As what? A businessman?

MS. OCAMPO: He just said that he is representing a certain client of the bank, the principal, and he would like to discuss with me a transaction with regard to the principal's account which will involve trust.

SEN. BIAZON: Yes. And this was the beginning of the moves for that transaction that ended up in Malacanang?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. BIAZON: Yes. Okay. Now, this second set of documents, I am interested in that. Where was this prepared?

MS. OCAMPO: The second set, in my office.

SEN. BIAZON: Yes. And was it actually signed?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Sir.

SEN. BIAZON: Where was it signed? In your office?

MS. OCAMPO: The signature card, the investment guidelines, and the directional letter of investment was signed on December 11, on the 21st Floor of Equitable PCI Bank, Tower I. And then the Investment Management Agreement was signed in the office of Atty. Estelito Mendoza.

SEN. BIAZON: How did it end up in the office of Atty. Estelito Mendoza? On whose instructions were these documents brought to the office of Estelito Mendoza?

MS. OCAMPO: Actually, I was informed to just go to this office, Dynavision, 108 Rada St., Fourth Floor. So Mr. Dichaves was supposed to be there. So I thought it was the office of Mr. Dichaves. I didn't anymore check whose office, but Mr. Go mentioned that Mr. Dichaves will be there. So I went to the office and I was looking for Mr. Dichaves, and the guard told me there is no Mr. Dichaves in the office, in that building. And then he mentioned that "Some of your companions are there." So I went up. And then it ended up that Mr. Dichaves was there in the office and it was the office of Atty. Mendoza.

SEN. BIAZON: Are you certain that it was in the office of Atty. Mendoza?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, I am, because I saw him and I talked to him.

SEN. BIAZON: Were there other personnel with you in the bank, officials of the bank, that went with you in that office?

MS. OCAMPO: I was...I went alone but Mr. Go was likewise there. He was in the room with Atty. Mendoza. And there were two men, their backs were against the door. I assumed that it was Mr. Dichaves. I did not enter the room when the signing was done. I just asked this lady who approached me to just bring in the documents for signature because I am familiar with the signature anyway.

SEN. BIAZON: Were the documents signed there?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. BIAZON: Who signed the documents?

MS. OCAMPO: Mr. Jaime Dichaves signed the documents.

SEN. BIAZON: And for what name? Was it for the name of Jaime Dichaves or some other name?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Jaime Dichaves.

SEN. BIAZON: As owner and claimant of the trust account?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, yes. If that was implemented, yes. But it wasn't implemented.

SEN. BIAZON: Why was it not implemented?

MS. OCAMPO: Because the principal...the principal is really Jose Velarde. And if he wants to assign his interest and writes over that investment management agreement for P500 million, then we should get his signature on a directional letter. But that never came. So, how can we implement it? We have no authority.

SEN. BIAZON: Were there other developments after that, what you might call "aborted signing" in the office?

MS. OCAMPO: It was not implemented, so...

SEN. BIAZON: It was not pursued.

MS. OCAMPO: No, not at all.

SEN. BIAZON: There were no other instructions after that?

MS. OCAMPO: No, no.

SEN. BIAZON: And this happened, what date?

MS. OCAMPO: December 13.

SEN. BIAZON: Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

x x x x x

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: The trial is resumed.

We shall have a continuation of the questions by members of the Court.

And the next will be the honorable Senator-Judge Flavier. After that, we will have the Honorable Senator-Judge Drilon; then, the honorable Senator-Judge Oreta; and the honorable Senator-Judge Coseteng.

You may now proceed, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER: Mr. Chief Justice, can I ask the witness a few clarificatory questions for my continuing education?

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Gladly, Your Honor. You may now proceed.

SEN. FLAVIER: Ms. Ocampo, you alleged that you personally witnessed President Joseph Estrada affix the signature "Jose Velarde" in your presence, as shown in Exhibit "UUU." Is that correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER: Aside from that particular incident of the signing by President Joseph Estrada, were you witness to the signing of any other document in which President Joseph Estrada affixed the name "Jose Velarde"?

MS. OCAMPO: No, Your Honor.

SEN. FLAVIER: So that was the only one?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: And you are specifically referring, Madam Witness, to what exhibit, for clarification again?

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