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MS. OCAMPO: With my officemates, no. Because it was assigned to me as trust officer, highly confidential. So I am supposed to handle the transaction. I did not discuss it with George Go anymore because I assumed that he instructed me to handle it. And he had talked to Atty. Chua before he instructed me, so he knows the whole transaction already.

SEN. LEVISTE: I assumed that you had already conducted similar deals in the past, is that correct? Or is this the first time that you had been witness to an alias being used?

MS. OCAMPO: There are accounts that actually used account numbers. But there should be one signature card that contains the signature of th eperson who is actually signing the agreement. So, there are transactions that have account numbers only. But this, where all the documents, all the signatures are Jose Velarde, it is the first itme.

SEN. LEVISTE: Was it, therefore, unusual that you had seen a person sign a name other than his in a signature card and in an Investment Management Agreement?

MS. OCAMPO: For Trust, it is. Because, actually for PCI Bank, because I came from PCI bank, so, it was, actually, the first time in terms of seeing a person sign a different name for all of the documents.

SEN. LEVISTE: Thank you. And my last question is, what prompted you to come to the Senate and testify?

MS. OCAMPO: There are actually three reasons. When I saw that the check that was presented on Day One, that was an Equitable bank check, and bore the signature of Jose Velarde, so I thought myself that, eventually, I will come out because I can identify. That's one. But I have probably to wait for my turn.

The second is that I was concerned, because of the fact that Atty. Chua saw me sometime in the first week of December and asked me about the documents and asked me what we're doing about it, et cetera. So, in other words, they remember that I was there, I witnessed. And apparently, after reviewing all the transactions with the bank, there are probably just two of us who have actually witnessed the President sign "Jose Velarde". So I was then afraid for my life and the security of my family. It is a real concern.

SEN. LEVISTE: And your third? Are these the three reasons?

MS. OCAMPO: There was actually an instruction to prepare a second set of documents. This was... it was actually instructed by Mr. George Go. So he told me to prepare another set of investment management documents. And because the principal had, I supposed, talked to him to assign his rights and interests over the IMA to a certain Jaime Dichaves. And that was done because, of course, I have...this is just an agency. We are just agents, then the principal is the President, say, in the name of Jose Velarde. So if he had instructed us to do it, then we will do it. But what really concerned me was that, first, it was signed December 11. Mr. Dichaves was there. So I witnessed the signing. And then I had to go for signing or for execution of the Investment Management Agreement and it was done in the office of...I am sorry, but it was done in the office of Atty. Estelito Mendoza. So that concerned me a lot. And there was another thing that was needed. We needed a letter of authority from the principal, Jose Velarde, or the President, to transfer his rights and interests to Jaime Dichaves which never came. So that concerned me. In fact, that was the reason why on December 13 I then talked to external counsel and I talked to the president about all of this.

SEN. LEVISTE: The President of the bank?

MS. OCAMPO: The bank, the bank.

SEN. LEVISTE: That is all, MR.Chief Justice. Thank you, Madam Witness.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you. The Chair would now recognize the honorable Senator-Judge Cayetano.

SEN. CAYETANO: Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

I would have loved to begin my questioning about your voluntary appearance and you already explained it. You explained it well. And let me just add a few more questions. So, as a result of the execution of the second document, you have now two documents. Am I correct?

MS. OCAMPO: The second document was not implemented. So there is really just one. As far as we are concerned, it is Jose Velarde. He did not execute any assignment.

SEN. CAYETANO: There was no...

MS. OCAMPO: So, there's...that one is out.

SEN. CAYETANO: So the second document was not executed at all?

MS. OCAMPO: It was executed but not implemented because it is incomplete.

SEN. CAYETANO: I see. So as far as your record is concerned, it is still Mr. Jose Velarde, as you testified, which is the President Joseph Ejercito Estrada. Am I correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. CAYETANO: Now, Mrs. Ocampo, tell me, do you remember the shape of the presidential table where all these papers were signed?

MS. OCAMPO: It was a very big round table.

SEN. CAYETANO: A very big round table.

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. CAYETANO: And I recall, ang sabi mo dito ay nasa kaliwa ka ni Pangulo?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. CAYETANO: A foot away?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. CAYETANO: At the time he signed "Jose Velarde." Am I correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Oho, oho.

SEN. CAYETANO: And can you tell us the locations of the individuals that you mentioned? For instance, you talked about Atty. Curato being with you. In this round table, where was he located in relation to you?

MS. OCAMPO: He was to my left. Atty. Curato.

SEN. CAYETANO: How far to your left?

MS. OCAMPO: One foot away, the next chair.

SEN. CAYETANO: One foot away.

MS. OCAMPO: The next chair.

SEN. CAYETANO: And you also mentioned the presence of Mr. Laquian. And where was he located in reference to the President?

MS. OCAMPO: He was on the right side of the President.

SEN. CAYETANO: Am I correct in concluding that there were four of you in the presidential table?

MS. OCAMPO: There was another one but he stood up and walked around the table. That was Atty. Fernando Chua.

SEN. CAYETANO: Okay. But did he sit first before he walked out?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. CAYETANO: Where was he located in relation to you?

MS. OCAMPO: He was actually...he was about two or three seats away from me on my left side. He was beside Atty. Curato.

SEN. CAYETANO: Okay. So, you are on the left side of the President, one foot away and a foot away from you is Atty. Curato. Am I correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. CAYETANO: And a little farther to the left of Curato is Mr. Chua. Atty. Chua.

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. CAYETANO: And to the right of the President is Mr. Laquian.

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. CAYETANO: How far is Mr. Laquian from the President? Do you recall?

MS. OCAMPO: He was initially about a foot away but when the signing took place, he pulled back his char. So he became like farther away, like maybe about two feet, two-and-a-half feet away.

SEN. CAYETANO: Did Mr. Laquian see the signature affixed by the President as Jose Velarde? Do you recall?

MS. OCAMPO: To my recollection, he did not. He did not see.

SEN. CAYETANO: He did not.

MS. OCAMPO: Because he was quite far. About two-and-a-half to three feet away already. Because he pulled the chair back when the signing started.

SEN. CAYETANO: Okay. Do you recall what hand the President used in signing?

MS. OCAMPO: The left hand.

SEN. CAYETANO: The left hand. Now, you testified earlier that your appearance here is with the approval of the Board. Am I correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. CAYETANO: You are talking about the Board of Directors of Equitable PCIB Bank.

MS. OCAMPO: PCI Bank.

SEN. CAYETANO: And is this a verbal approval or a written approval?

MS. OCAMPO: There is a written approval.

SEN. CAYETANO: A written approval. And I recall also that you said you brought all these documents, all these exhibits, with you with the approval of the Board. Am I correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor. The board and the Management.

SEN. CAYETANO: And this was also part of the written approval by the Board of Directors?

MS. OCAMPO: I cannot...I cannot answer that. I suppose yes because it was all-encompassing.

SEN. CAYETANO: Now, you said that you did not discuss this matter anymore with Mr.Go because you assumed that Mr. Go knew about this account. Am I correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. CAYETANO: Why did you assume that?

MS. OCAMPO: Because Atty. Fernando Chua called... actually talked to him at The Anvil Restaurant. That was February 3rd. They were talking for a while and only after they talked when then Mr. Go called me in to tell me about the fact that there is this principal, this client of the bank, who is represented by Atty. Fernando Chua, who would like to do a transaction.

SEN. CAYETANO: I see. And at no time did you ever discuss this matter with Mr. Go except when a second document was supposed to be executed by Mr. Dichaves. Am I correct?

MS. OCAMPO: There were times when I had to discuss it but we would refer to, we would not mention the name "Jose Velarde". Like we would just say, "the principal". Like, when,... the collateral cover. The collateral was Waterfront shares. Because of the decline in the value, then he is not amply covered for his P500-million loan. So I would discuss with Mr. Go and give him an update and tell him that I am trying to get some more collateral from Mr. Gatchalian.

SEN. CAYETANO: Okay. Now, you mentioned that you voluntarily appeared here because, among others, in fact, I think No. 1, ang sabi mo ay dahil nakita mo iyong tseke na may pirmang "jose Velarde." Why did you say that you thought that you have to come here anyway?

MS. OCAMPO: Because I will...because it is part of...the transaction is actually coming from the bank funds. And if you will...I have not seen the ledgers. But definitely, the ledgers will show that there is a withdrawal of P500 million and I am sure that the auditors, the parties will try to trace that. So, it will then go to trust and I will be presented.

SEN. CAYETANO: And you feel that...are you saying that there are more than P500 million account of Jose Velarde?

MS. OCAMPO: I really don't know.

SEN. CAYETANO: Is that your conclusion?

MS. OCAMPO: Sir, I don't know how much is in the savings because I never really...that's a bank transaction. With the trust, it is P500 million plus the interest income already on the loan.

SEN. CAYETANO: That is all you know?

MS. OCAMPO: For the trust.

SEN. CAYETANO: For the trust.

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Sir.

SEN. CAYETANO: So, ever since the check of P142 million came, you already knew that that is "Jose Velarde" and not "Jose Valhalla"?

MS. OCAMPO: It looked like "Valhalla", but I knew that it was "Velarde", you know, because that is the ... As I know, that is the account in the bank. Later on, I found out.

SEN. CAYETANO: Because the signatures were familiar to you.

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. CAYETANO: One final question. You said that you saw Atty. Fernando Chua. When was that, December 11?

MS. OCAMPO: No. Sometime, the first week of December, he visited me in the office unannounced, unannounced.

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