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THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you very much.

We now recognize the honorable Senator Sergio Osmena III.

SEN. OSMENA (S): Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

Ms. Ocampo, can you tell us or can you tell this Court if and how long have you been familiar with the savings account/current account that was just mentioned, the number of which was just read to you by Senator-Judge Guingona?

MS. OCAMPO: Sir, I'm not familiar with this account because it is with the bank proper and I only handle the trust.

SEN. OSMENA (S): So, therefore, this was the first time you heard of this account?

MS. OCAMPO: Actually, when I went to Malacanang to have the Jose Velarde, the President, sign the document, then I saw that there was this account in the bank. And I was told also by Mr. Go that the funding for the P500 million will be coming from the principal's account with the bank.

SEN. OSMENA (S): Now, Ms. Ocampo, you said you did not know who you were supposed to see in Malacanang. So how did you know to go to the Office of the President?

MS. OCAMPO: Atty. Fernando Chua, the contact person for the transaction, the representative of the principal, mentioned that the signing of the Investment Management Agreement and all the documents will be made in Malacanang, but he never mentioned that evening, that was February 3rd, as to who I will be meeting. And actually, I only found out like one hour before that it was the President, in Malacanang already.

SEN. OSMENA (S): So, you went to Malacanang and you were supposed to meet Attorney Chua in Malacanang?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMENA (S): And then, only then that he tell you that the principal would be --

MS. OCAMPO: The President.

SEN. OSMENA (S): -- the President.

Now, you also stated that you never saw the name "Jose Velarde" before that date.

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMENA (S): And that the Investment Management Agreement you had brought to Malacanang did not have the name "Jose Velarde" typewritten on it?

MS. OCAMPO: No.

SEN. OSMENA (S): That came later.

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. OSMENA (S): All right. Now, what about this debit-credit letter also dated February 4?

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: The Exhibit Number, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMENA (S): Exhibit No. "XXX-1", Mr. Chief Justice -

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

SEN. OSMENA (S): --addressed to Ms. Beatriz Bagsit, First Vice President. When was the first time you saw this letter?

MS. OCAMPO: After all the Investment Management documents signed on February-they were signed on February 4 -- then I pulled out this document which was inside an envelope. So, that was the only time I saw it after he had signed all the trust-related documents.

SEN. OSMENA (S): I see. Inside what envelope? An envelope you had brought with you to Malacanang or an envelope that Mr. Chua gave to you when you were in Malacanang?

MS. OCAMPO: An envelope that I brought which was given to me by a branch officer.

SEN. OSMENA (S): I see. So, this had been prepared also by the bank?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMENA (S): Obviously, 'no?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor, but on the bank proper side, not the trust. That is ...

SEN. OSMENA (S): I see. By the banking side. All right. Now, then are you familiar if there are today, after February 4, are you familiar if there are any other Jose Velarde accounts?

MS. OCAMPO: I cannot answer that because I'm not familiar, except for the ones that have already been presented to this Court.

SEN. OSMENA (S): And then would you be able also...Have you been able to take a look at the signature specimen card that is the subject of the Current Account No. 011025495-4?

MS. OCAMPO: Current Account?

SEN. OSMENA (S): That is a current account that was the subject of Envelope No. 1, as we know it here in the Senate, which was opened and then we sealed. That is Current Account No. 25495-4?

MS. OCAMPO: I don't have it, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMENA (S): But in the letter, the debit-credit letter to Ms. Bagsit, the Savings Account number, the counterpart in the combo account which ends 62501-5, you are familiar with?

MS. OCAMPO: Based on what was presented.

SEN. OSMENA (S): I see. But you never saw this specimen signature card?

MS. OCAMPO: No.

SEN. OSMENA (S): That is all, Mr. Chief Justice.

MS. OCAMPO: Thank you very much. We will now recognize the honorable Senator John Osmena.

SEN. OSMENA (J): Thank you, Mr.Chief Justice. Now, Ms. Ocampo, these exhibits that you are using "UUU", "UUU-2", "UUU_3", "VVV", "VVV-1", "VVV-2", "WWW", "WWW-2", "XXX", "YYY", "YYY-2', "YYY-3", "YYY-4", "YYY-5", "YYY-6", "YYY-8"---I don't know why there is no 7...

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: That should be 7.

SEN. OSMENA (J): Okay, "YYY-9", "YYY-10", "YYY-11", and "YYY-13". All of these documents are form documents of the bank, is that not correct?

MS. OCAMPO: The Investment Management Agreement, "UUU", is a form document.

SEN. OSMENA (J): No, all of the ones that I---okay, go ahead.

MS. OCAMPO: The "YYY" is a form document, "VVV" is a form document, but the directional letter --- I don't have a copy here --- the directional letter of investment is not a form document. That was customized in view of the specific instructions of the principal.

SEN. OSMENA (J): Now, "UUU-2" which is identical to "UUU-1" and "UUU-3" are documents which have nothing in writing on their face except the typewritten figure P500 million in words and figures, is that not correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMENA (J): And you have not initialed this document?

MS. OCAMPO: I actually signed...This is "UUU"?

SEN. OSMENA (J): That is correct, "UUU".

MS. OCAMPO: I actually signed the document.

SEN. OSMENA (J): May I know where your signature is?

MS. OCAMPO: On the second page, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMENA (J): No, I am talking about the first page of "UUU"; the second page is actually denominated as "UUU-1".

MS. OCAMPO: It forms part of the agreement. I mean....

SEN. OSMENA (J): But this could have been another document?

MS. OCAMPO: It's not another document.

SEN. OSMENA (J): Well, that is now a matter of conjecture. What I am saying is that there is nothing on this document that relates to "UUU-1".

MR. POBLADOR: We object. The question calls for a conjecture, Your Honor.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: The witness is asked for a fact, so objection is overruled. Witness may answer.

MS. OCAMPO: You can look at the account number which is 10178056-1, which is the trust account number of this Jose Velarde account. You can look at C-163 which is also the confidential account name. So, it is consistent with the signature card which also has the typewritten numbers.

SEN. OSMENA (J): Is it not correct that PCI Bank IMA Account No. 10178056-1, as well as the C-163, is not either handwritten or typewritten, this is computer generated?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Sir. This is not a pro forma, I mean, it's not a pre-printed, but it was generated by the computer. We got the account number in the confidential account register, and then we got the account name 163 in the confidential account register as well. So when we printed the document, we already put it in.

SEN. OSMENA (J): May we ask that these three items as - C-163; the amount of P500 million and PCI Bank IMA Account No. 10178056-1-all be marked as Exhibits "UUU-a", "UUU-b", and "UUU-c", Your Honor.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Would the Prosecution agree?

SEN. OSMENA (J): Of the Court, exhibits of the Court.

MR. POBLADOR: Your Honor, the Prosecution panel objects to the further marking of the originals. We had explained before that we do not wish it to be defaced. If the Court would like its own markings, at the very least, it should adopt its own markings, Your Honor.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: The Chair would rule that the request can be taken into consideration. Anyway, the document will be presented in evidence and therefore the judges can make proper notice thereof at the time that they would be ready to deliberate on the merits of the case.

SEN. OSMENA (J): Thank you, Your Honor.

Now, I will go to Exhibit "YYY-1", Your Honor.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Yes, you may proceed, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMENA (J): "YYY-8", Your Honor, and "YYY-5" and "YYY-3" and "YYY-4". All of these four documents have not been in any way marked with any particular marking which would indicate that these are documents that relate to the account that we are under...that is subject of this hearing, Your Honor.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Do you agree with the observation, Madam Witness?

MS. OCAMPO: I would like to explain why not all the copies, pages were signed. In fact, I had more copies of the agreements. I had six (6) copies of the Investment Management Agreement, I had two (2) copies of the investment guidelines, I had four (4) copies, et cetera. But Atty. Fernando Chua informed me that the President-that was the time, that was about an hour before I found out that it was the President, does not want to sign too many documents, too many p ages. So with that, I kept some of the copies. So for this particular document, which has eight (8) pages, I just identified the most important pages and that's what I asked him to sign.

SEN. OSMENA (J): But you admit that these were never signed and these are form documents?

MS. OCAMPO: These are form documents and there was a --

SEN. OSMENA (J): Thank you.

MS. OCAMPO: --reason for not signing.

SEN. OSMENA (J): Thank you very much.

SEN. OSMENA (J): Now, when you refer to...Well, I would like to say that the same holds true for "YYY-9" and "YYY-10" also, Your Honor.

Now, let's go to that document that you called the Investment Agreement?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes.

SEN. OSMENA (J): How do you describe "XXX", Your Honor? How do you describe this document called "XXX"?

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: Exhibit "XXX", Madam Witness.

MS. OCAMPO: This is the... Your Honor, this is the debit/credit authority.

SEN. OSMENA (J): The debit/credit.

MS. OCAMPO: This is coming from the bank proper to allow the bank proper to actually debit the account of the principal with the bank and credit trust.

SEN. OSMENA (J): Okay. I heard you testify, please correct me, if I am wrong, that this document was inside an envelope and you did not open the document until after the other documents were signed, is that correct?

MS. OCAMPO: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMENA (J): So, you did not see the documents signed?

MS. OCAMPO: I saw the document signed.

SEN. OSMENA (J): You did not see the actual signing of this document.

MS. OCAMPO: I did. I did.

SEN. OSMENA (J): It was in an envelope.

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